I just recently heard about edupunk, the term that’s seemingly sweeping the edublogosphere and causing all these old people to grab their dusty Sex Pistols t-shirts and bust out the black eyeliner.
From what I can gather using Wikipedia and Bavatuesdays (the blog where the term originated), edupunk is basically the DIY culture applied to education. It’s taking a concept and making it reality. I suppose it’s a call for action.
Wikipedia gives these examples as edupunk: “Legos, Edusim, chalk, Hypercard, Moodle, use of the Bliki (blog and wiki mashups), students’ art work on the outside wall of the classroom, and students teaching their teachers how to use technology.”
The only thing that I see missing in these discussions of “edupunk” are students. Sure, in theory students are supposed to be given more power, but where are the student voices in the actual discussions of edupunk? This Jim Groom, smart and interesting man though he is, is an adult, a teacher, and (I’m sorry) not actually punk or DIY. Coining this new term and making it seem cool because it uses the word “punk” doesn’t change the fact that a teacher made it up, teachers are discussing it right now, and a teacher will be implementing the theory.
I realize that the application of the term isn’t exactly focused on the real punk community, it’s obviously about education. But I’d like to make it clear that the punk and DIY cultures are the domains of the younger generation now. The students will be the leaders in whatever underground change there may be.
Don’t you teachers remember when you were young? Hippies? Protesters? Implementers of change? Controllers of the cool, anti-establishment, nonconformist underground culture? Can you imagine what it might feel like if a bunch of older people, outside of your culture, used your name for something completely different? And didn’t include you in the discussions of it?
Plus, it’s not like any of the things listed haven’t been happening. Most of us on Students 2.0 have been helping our teachers with technology for our entire high school careers, Youthnet has potential to be a DIY student run educational forum, Space is a mostly student run online lit mag, Intrepid Classroom is a great example of online DIY education, and not to mention Clay Burell’s Personal Learning Network classroom. Packaging us up into one little label isn’t right.
“Edupunk” teachers: you are not punk, and you are not DIY. You haven’t even gotten close. Where’s the community? Where are the equal voices?Until a teacher is willing to listen to student voices and include them in discussions about their learning and education, they are not what I would call edupunk.
What do you think?
I still relate better to teenagers than to adults and I am 34 years old. In your hope and anger I see my own youth and that is where I know my work must be done. I cannot speak for other people who are grabbing their dusty Sex Pistols t-shirts and bust out the black eyeliner, but I am still the same pissed off teenager i was when I was 18.
So I have to call bull shit when you say, ““Edupunk” teachers: you are not punk, and you are not DIY. You haven’t even gotten close.”
Some of us are trying. You ask: Where’s the community? Where are the equal voices?
Until a teacher is willing to listen to student voices and include them in discussions about their learning and education, they are not what I would call edupunk.
You know I am listening, and I do appreciate the nod to my projects, but I hope we are not alone!
This Jim Groom character completely misappropriates the term “punk,” no matter the context outside of a specific historical context. What is described as EduPunk is simply what decent teachers should be doing anyway. It’s a fancy bit of cant that serves as shameless self-promotion. Can’t blame the guy (HELL, why didn’t I think of that!), but that’s what it is...
On related note, DIY did not start with punk (it actually started with those late 1960s garage bands), and again, most teachers are DIY whether they know it or not. Buying their own supplies, jerry-rigging a projector to get a few more years out of it, copying chapters when buying the book is not an option...all of that is DIY. Punk is not synonymous with DIY, and DIY is not synonymous with punk.
But, most students have no idea this is happening, if anything actually is happening. I think the only way to include students in any discussion on education is to get them online to participate in these forums. There are hundreds of teachers on twitter, but how many students?
Yes, teacher should be making the effort to involve students in the direction of our education. But, a good first step is to get students involved in anything.
The whole things smacks more of Hot Topic than the punk I knew.
I’m also not sure where the heavy tech angle comes from. All the punk I knew was played on the bare minimum you could still scrape together. Based on the description of the technological angle, perhaps this movement should really be called “edusynthpop”, or “edulightjazz”.
In fact, so have six other students that I interviewed for this blog post: http://arynna.umwblogs.org/2008/06/01/edupinions/
I don’t think it’s fair to say that students aren’t being included in this discussion. If students want to be part of a discussion, they should jump in. (And you have, which is great!)
EDUPUNK isn’t about middle-aged professor trying to re-live their youth, nor is it about encroaching on “domains” and drawing lines between people. Just as “packaging us up into one little label” is unfair, it’s also not fair to do the same to these instructors who are exploring with us.
It should be clarified that Jim Groom is an IT person and not a full-time professor. Edupunk was initially about DIY Edtech and if anyone knows Jim and the people he works with they are definitey DIY Edtech people.
Regardless if you think the word is stupid or not it has obviously called peoples attention to the fact that something is just not right, it is resonating with people for a reason.
Jim Groom loves the student involvement and he is very much about showcasing their work too. It is funny that you even mention that their is a dividing line that says once you hit a certain age you can no longer be punk or radical. Drawing these lines provide just another reason why professors and students can’t communicate, something I think you guys at Student 2.0 combat against.
Yeah it is possibly a stupid word and it is meme than what Jim Groom ever intended it to be, but still something is there. We should stop bickering about whether the word is useful or not and start talking about why we are reacting in such a manner and discuss the possibilities from there.
And to clarify, when I use the word “students”, I’m generally referring to K-12, because that’s where my sphere of knowledge extends to. I am aware that many more college students are involved, but the number of high school students that are connected within the edublogginess?
However, I take issue with your take that students are not included in this — central to everything Brian and Jim and Andy and I are doing is the student. One of the points that has united us is that it’s about learning (student-centered) technologies, not teaching technologies. one edupunk idea? “Microgrants” to students that want to use paid technology to achieve an objective — even if that objective is not tied to a class. Another edupunk idea? Allow students to control their own work through having them synidcate it out of WordPress or Blogger or YouTube rather than be forced to upload it into Blackboard.
You’ve also got it wrong in the fact that we’re not teachers, for the most part. We’re people trying to convince teachers to balance power in the classroom a little more fairly. People who think the question of whether a student should “own” a paper they wrote is important, etc.
As to the name, I suppose it rings different with different people. People my age — the 30 and 40 somethings that seem to be active in edupunk — don’t feel that we are co-opting the term punk — we feel the term has been co-opted from us to support an overcommercialized simulacrum of what punk really was back in the day, when being labeled a punk band meant you’d never make a dime, but you still wore it as a badge of pride. (If you could be called a punk band and make a million bucks, what would that term mean? And what does it mean in a post Nirvana, post Green Day world?). But if the term bothers you, by all means ditch it. Do however read what Groom has been doing at UMW and Brian at UBC, etc. I think you’ll find they’ve been fighting in the trenches for this stuff for quite some time, with little reward other than the satisfaction of being on the side of good.
We- teachers, students, young, old, whoever is passionate about building a world that is not based on top down imposed ideologies based on profit and greed, but rather one based on freedom and expression, must use any tool, any means to connect with other free thinkers and dismantle the machine that is driving humanity and our planet to destruction.
Forget ego and labels and long drawn out discussions, just do something that will rock the (strong urge to swear again, but I am the adult in the house) house!
And when you do, share it with as many people as you can.
Really, it’s just a term which some bloggers have chosen to use to refer to an already existent trend. At best, it is a meme. At worst, it gives the entirely wrong impression of modern teaching: something unusual.
Most punks (chose whatever type you want) I know of would rather that not everyone was a punk. Punks tend to relish being abnormal. Once something becomes normal, is it really still “punk?”
Don’t we want the philosophies and techniques behind edupunk to be normal (and expected) for all teachers?
I remember (vaguely) my “hippie” days. By the time our parents and older generations began to adopt our trappings, if not our lifestyle, we had moved on to a different state of understanding.
Become our partners is this learning adventure. Don’t dismiss us because we were born in a different era. We are all, after all, seekers.
Love,
Tutu (the
EduFreeSpirit)
http://www.seeqpod.net/search/?plid=d95b2c5834
(and no, the Pink Fairies weren’t really “punk” - but then Joe Strummer wasn’t “young” either)
It would be good to examine the student’s role in EduPunk. Alternative education - deschooling, alternative schools, etc - seem to already be at the forefront of EduPunk-ness. Now it’s just time for the rest of us to catch up.
Signed, a fellow student.
Anyway, that’s not my point. It’s close, though. My point is a bit of an expanding echo on Heidi Feldman’s, above, and it goes like this:
Getting student voice to do anything other than recite homework in a very non-Edupunk way has been a tireless mission of mine for over two years now, and it has yielded precious little results.
Heidi says “students should be on Twitter,” joining conversations with adults, etc, and all the adults think so too (hello - do you remember the astonishing support the adults gave us when we launched this blog? Look at the Feedburner numbers and Technorati authority - the adults are all ears and mightily Jonesing for any students out there with life and passion in them, and the ability to put two ideas together coherently).
The problem is, your generation is generally not showing much of an interest in joining the revolution. The adults are trying to start fires of student freedom, and the students are apparently too busy following some other cool herd to care to combust into revolutionary (”punk”) learning.
Or maybe I’m wrong.
But I’m not seeing any of the young generation doing much “punkiness” or “hippieness” or revolution of any kind right now - Iraq Invasion? *yawn* Global warming? *maybe after I finish my latte* Etc etc.
The numbers speak all: 70,000+ adults out here in the eduworld trying to end the Ancien Regime, BUT - maybe 20 or 30 teens of any visibility showing any sort of ability to join with any sort of staying power.
How about throwing some molotov cocktails at the teen glass house in future posts? In my view, it’s them that are the disappointment for not being nearly rebellious or substantial enough.
“I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by....” Fill in the blank.
I liked the post, though. Good to see one with a bit of fire in it. Nice use of language, too. Fun.
“I find the term edupunk to be distasteful.”
Perplexed by that comment.
“I find the term edupunk to be distasteful.”
All right!!
I was going to write a blog post (what would hopefully be my last on this subject for a while) but I’ll leave a comment here instead —
Lindsea, there are some oversights in your original post. I had the distinct pleasure of presenting with Jim Groom, D’Arcy Norman, and Brian Lamb up at Northern Voice. The central piece of Jim’s part of the session centered on student-centered learning — he pointed to a course where an instructor had posted a link to a sound recording — from there, he brought us through the different connections that occurred around the original audio clip.
And there were a few things that were cool about this — the way the learning process could be clearly traced with mouse clicks, but my primary lesson (the main thing I had the pleasure of learning) was the power of a clear example of what is possible when a teacher sets up a clear structure and then gets out of the way.
And, of course, this learning was occurring on a system that Jim played a leading role conceptualizing, and subsequently building.
@Arthus, comment 14, re: “Don’t we want the philosophies and techniques behind edupunk to be normal (and expected) for all teachers?” — yes, we do. But they’re not. Not even close. I’d say the more pressing question is how we are going to enact the change we’d like to see happen.
@Clay, comment 19: a lot of wisdom in that post. One thing that particularly resonated with me — “But I’m not seeing any of the young generation doing much “punkiness” or “hippieness” or revolution of any kind right now” — man, it hurts to admit how much that feels like the truth.
With that said, though, I don’t think it is. I have seen enough greatness (and idiocy) in equal proportion across the age spectrum to know that neither are isolated within one demographic. We’re all in this together — it’s not a with-us-or-against-us mentality. So let’s stop eating our own. Let’s ground criticism in a solid understanding of context, something that has been sorely missing from the recent edupunk rants. Let’s move away from a conversation about the label and into a conversation that leads to effective action. Talking about a label is just more words. Using ideas — ones you agree with, ones you disagree with, and ones you don’t yet understand fully — as a springboard for action is a far better use of time.
The’re aint no cure for the summertime blues.
Labels tear us apart and trivialize what we’re doing (I mean we as in teachers and students). We truly are in this revolution, for a lack of a better term, together. We’re all trying to incite changes in our school systems, be it from the teacher angle or the student angle. “Edupunk” etc just creates cliques and divisions when we should focus on the idea behind the term, which we were doing regardless. And that’s one of the main things that upset me. So, true to the name, my sentiment in this post was closer to “Ef the man!” than “Let’s all join together!” because I felt like a) I was left out as a student b) people have been doing these things for over a year, that I know of at least, and yet they haven’t received mainstream attention like “edupunk” has.
Those two points have been cleared up a little from both students and teachers working with the “edupunk” group, but it still doesn’t change my feelings that the student/teacher discussion is still lacking. Who cares if it’s the student’s or the teacher’s fault? It just needs to happen more and we should all take steps forward to each other and embrace. Maybe hit up some trendy coffee shop for a latte (or get cozy during a podcast or skye chat).
Regarding the fear of seeming apathy in our generation (i.e. Clay et al), again I feel defensive. Maybe I should point you in the direction of the first post I ever wrote on this blog? http://students2oh.org/2007/12/10/student-servants/
Could it be the false consensus effect making you think that students are an overly pretentious apathetic cool herd? And Clay, what about the students working in Project Global Cooling? I’m sure at the crunch time for all of us, the latte became more of a energy booster necessity.
I could literally write a huge list of grassroots organizations that students and youth have started and/or participated in...send me an email and I’ll happily give it to you. So you guys aren’t seeing any punkness or hippiness going on? To that I say “OPEN YOUR EYES.” It is going on, both in real life and on the internet. It may not look the same or feel the same as the hippies or the punks, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Or maybe no body recognizes it because it doesn’t have a catchy label.
Whatever. I’m tired of this edupunk label or whatever else you want to call it. Don’t call it anything. What I want as a student is unity, acceptance, respect, discussion, openness, learning, teaching and revolution. What do you want? More importantly, what do you want to do about it?
So I have a challenge for anyone reading this post:
Do a bit of research about DIY and the punk ethics and see what you can produce to show you understand the concept of punk as it relates to your learning and education. Use any tools you have at your disposable both digital and old school, then present your work to INtrepid Classroomor your own blog. Don’s ask for clarification, don’t ask for what is acceptable; don’t ask anything just do it. Create!
We have been mired in the past by too much discussion and collaboration, so this is an independent project and it is due by the 26th of June. Don’t let the adults do all the talking. Take back your education!
If you agree it’s cool by me, at least I’m not a robot
I’m not afraid of things I read, I won’t divide my friends up
Dictatorship of people’s minds is not what I will strive for ”
–Dead Kennedys
I honestly don’t think that Clay was correct in saying, “But I’m not seeing any of the young generation doing much “punkiness” or “hippieness” or revolution of any kind right now - Iraq Invasion? *yawn* Global warming? *maybe after I finish my latte* Etc etc.”
Read comment 25.
I’m sure you already know this, but I’m an active participant in the DIY/punk culture in Hawaii; it’s part of my personal philosophies, and I try to live the concept daily. Be prepared for follow up posts.
p.s. to all, maybe we shouldn’t point fingers at who or who isn’t protesting and stopping the Iraq war and global warming.
By “students” I meant k-12 focusing on high school. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
We, students and teachers, all want to make a change, but we are lost as how to do it, so we create sub-groups, give labels, and spend hours discussing the merit or flaws of each new system. When in reality we need to look within ourselves and try to understand how we can use our bodies and souls to help create work that will instigate a radical shift in the priorities of our society. This is no easy task.
So I hope that my challenge isn’t seen as a lame gimmicky promotion for edupunk. I am simply trying to fan the spark that seems to have been created by the term. Call it what you will but let’s see what it can produce, this...what did you call it: unity, acceptance, respect, discussion, openness, learning, teaching and revolution.
I still owe you a latte in SF! No Starbuck though soooo anti-punk
_I_, for one, _do_ care whose fault it is that more students aren’t talking with teachers. And numbers _do_ matter concerning your claim that student-adult dialogue “needs to happen more.” I repeat my evidence: where are the students on Twitter? Where are the students submitting contributions to this 1,000+ subscriber blog - one of the biggest educational megaphones on the English-speaking planet right now? They’re not lining up to say their piece, and we’re all here reading and waiting for the students 2.0 to do so.
But it’s early in the revolution, if ever it comes.
I’d love to see that list you promised, but why email? Write a freaking post about it and show the world those teens out there who we’re missing.
Project Global Cooling - yes, it owes a good bit to students. But I haven’t been able to write a post about that ambitious project because I don’t want to blurt out my impression that it came off due to 9 parts teacher work and 1 part student (and I’m not hinting that was true with you).
I think one interesting issue here is that you strongly imply that teens don’t need adults to do cool stuff educationally. If you intended that implication, I disagree. Teens are pre-teens plus a year or five. Adults have always mentored and revealed to teens the ropes of the adult world they know through so much more experience. Think of Chris Watson (adult) and your blogging initiation.
If the revolution is going to come, a large part will be played by the older folks (and at 46, I’m a decade younger than I was at 30). The older folks will try to wake the younger up to the more-than-Facebook-fun power for change inherent in these tools. Otherwise the kids will likely stay kids.
Hugs and kisses
“....but I know if I try I’ll go out of my mind, better leave them behind... the kid’s are allright...”
People try to put us down....talking ’bout MY generation...
Meanwhile go read Paulo Friere’s Pedagogy of the Oppressed.
Yeah, Friere and hooks are edupunks.
‘i’ before ‘e’...except in Freire.
There are plenty of movements out there started by teens without the help of adults–often against the wishes of adults. Speaking from my personal experience, a lot of the coolest stuff I have participated in has been without the help of adults. Yes, you helped us to found Students 2.0. But I started blogging without a single adult “mentor.”
Students don’t need adults to create change.
I understand a DIY culture in ed. It makes sense in some cases, perhaps most in edtech (when resources are limited and so is the money). But why not just call it DIYedu?
Punk is all about being anti-establishment. But isn’t education an establishment? Isn’t it the MOST IMPORTANT establishment? I agree we need reform, but calling it edupunk I think somehow cheapens the movement.
As far as the student role in this movement, it was alluded to on the wikipedia page, where students lead the training of teachers on new technology. It can’t stop there though. Students have much more to contribute, and I honestly think that they are the most underutilized resource in our country (USA) today. Imagine the productivity our students could have if they were helped to develop their own skills and pursue their own passions (instead of wading through the cookie-cutter requirements we force upon them currently).
The Oaktree Foundation is an Australian development organization entirely run by young people. They organize and support development work in Africa and Asia. http://theoaktree.org
Also, there are thousands of examples of youth making a difference at TakingItGlobal.Org
Really, Lindsea I applaud the all out ‘take no prisoners’ approach. We needed something that little bit less politically correct.
True punk spirit is contained within your post, and I loved it.
Yes, teachers have always been DIY and corporations have always tried to repackage what individual teachers are doing and sell it back to them, but this is the first time there’s been a widespread push-back against this repackaged bland-ified corporate culture. Maybe because more of us are aware of the tools by which we can do these things on our own, maybe simply the speed of communication available between professional learning communities. I don’t know, but I do think it would be a mistake to simply dismiss edupunk because of the (possibly incorrect) negative connotations the term itself engenders.
And my point that the _numbers_ of students aren’t there still stands, even if you can adduce a handful of contrary examples. I already said there are maybe 30 students in this brewing adult world (30 is generous, as I can really only think of about ten).
The unfortunate thing in all of this is simply the need to assert a generation gap based on biological time, when that gap could constructively vanish if we re-figured our tribal ties by spiritual affinities, instead of biological time-stamps.
Why I’m thinking of Freud I don’t know, but I am ~
I do agree that your original point of there not being significant quality student blogging still stands. There are 24 student blogs in my RSS reader, and only half of those are updated with any amount of regularity. The number which offer quality content I could count on my hand.
I’ve got a post in the works about this.
If the revolution is going to come and if it’s going to be at all permenant and meaningful, it _needs_ older folks to pass down their wisdom to us. Learning what you have to teach will prevent us from remaking all of your mistakes. We won’t have to relearn the wheel, so to speak.
I didn’t intend that implication that teens don’t need adults, I strongly believe that guidance from teachers is important(especially after the discussion on the post “What is learning?” http://students2oh.org/2008/01/30/what-is-learning/). You were (are) an invaluable mentor in the world of web 2.0.
Regarding PGC–buddy, the reason why I haven’t written a PGC post yet is because I desperately needed more teacher help. I was pretty much left on my own to organize the bands, decorate my the booth and poster, and collaborate with our Sustainability Fair. Students can do it all on their own, but it takes a hell of a lot of work to do.
That’s why students and teachers should work together, yeah? Maybe it wouldn’t have been such hard work for us if we all took on some responsibility–equally dedicated to the same cause; if we worked as one unit, undivided.
I’ve always found that if I’m given responsibility, felt a sense of ownership and connection to something, I put my heart into it. Maybe students don’t feel like contributing to a discussion with teachers will yeild anything. Maybe students think that teacher will listen, sure, but that what they say won’t affect the outcome.
The same concept goes for what’s learned in the classroom. It’s meaningless unless there’s a connection. Homework is mechanical until it has real life application. I’ve just recently realized that my education is MINE, and for my benefit alone. It’s not to go to college, it’s not to get good grades, it’s not to please my parents. After that lightbulb went off, “school” became a place to learn. “Class” became just a small step in a bigger, life long journey. But each small step quadrupled in meaning.
So all I’m asking is to give us a place in the revolution, the discussion, the classroom that actually matters. Don’t try to take away our ownership of it. Make us feel what you believe. Make us feel like we matter and that we can create change (in school and beyond). This isn’t a “stay away from us, old folks!” message. It’s a “help us, join us, teach us, but don’t take it away from us” message.
Much love, brah.
Pedagogy is right next to Feminism is for Everybody by bell hooks on my shelf
Thanks to Anand Thakker for recommending Freire.
I understand the Blackboard reference many have made in regards to edupunk, especially with the prices they give. But even open source costs money, just look at all of the Moodle Partners. Furthermore, the very same corporate interests are the ones that provide such a variety of tools to use in education (most you can find at no cost).
Unity precludes revolution, so which do you really want - or which do you want first? (-:
Not wanting to feel as though I might be co-opting the edupunk term, I had to pick a phrase to use in my forthcoming book (The World Is Your Campus: Skip the SAT, Save Thousands On Tuition, and Get An Outrageously Global Education–more at http://www.TheWorldIsYourCampus.com) It has taken quite a bit of discussion with my Random House editor and agent to come up with something that is neither offensive or, well, too terribly lame.
Not sure if we have the ideal phrase, but here it is:
Bold Schoolers. As opposed to Old Schoolers. And as in bold enough to take a step (or several) away from the traditional education path.
I really wanted to use it in the title, but it was considered too intimidating for the mainstream. But then, isn’t that the point? This discussion reminds me how easily we attach ourselves to ideas about words, and I’d love to hear any thoughts or comments on this term.
Email me at mayafrost@hotmail.com
Full disclosure: this is the same Peter you blocked (and continue to block) on Twitter. I thought you should know that so you don’t end up accidentally communicating with someone whom you intend to reject.
Friedman on Generation Q (NY Times): “I just spent the past week visiting several colleges — Auburn, the University of Mississippi, Lake Forest and Williams — and I can report that the more I am around this generation of college students, the more I am both baffled and impressed.
I am impressed because they are so much more optimistic and idealistic than they should be. I am baffled because they are so much less radical and politically engaged than they need to be.”...
Back to changing the world through YouTubing.
Da Shatner Funk (better than an edufunk) (a must-watch) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLpLU7D7MWk
I thought “edupunk” referred to an ideology. I didn’t know it was coined in order to personally attack you through name calling. Distasteful indeed!
Because pointing fingers is, um, completely the point.
I don’t think putting teachers or students down will improve education. This post was written with the intention of generating an intelligent conversation. Would you like to participate?