This post has absolutely no educational value.
Things have been said about Students 2.0. Most are good, a few are bad, several are skeptical. No links needed (yet). You know who you are and where you stand.
On one hand, we have our supporters. Those who recognize that student voice is an important component in the educational process. Does anyone dispute that concept? (We’ll worry about implementation later.)
Our detractors. After all, we are not the norm. It’s not easy being the early adopters. Are we (and others like us) the only students who care enough about their education to write about it? Yeah, no arguments there.
The educational institution has been ingrained in my peers as evil. Homework, standardized tests, reading “boring” books, learning “useless” knowledge, and on top of that, teachers are of course out to get us. Trust me, they are all bad. 
Except the ones like Clay Burell. He’s the guy who linked all of us student “edubloggers” together. He understands the importance of student voice, and takes action about it. That, in my mind, sets him much farther apart from any other teacher or administrator with a blog, because on top of being a full-time teacher and “de-facto tech coordinator” at his school, he organized a global, student-run blog in less than a month. Don’t get the wrong idea, though. I disagree with Clay on a multitude of issues, only a few of which he is aware of. 
I do digress. For 85% of students, school is evil. Before I’m accused of such, I’m not taking a pessimistic view here, unfortunately. The top 5% of students care about the education. The other 10% don’t necessarily care, but they understand school’s long-term value. Sort of.
That can change. I can’t speak for the group, and I haven’t even bothered to read our mission statement, but I know why I’m here. I want to change the students. The digital natives and the digital immigrants can continue to be at odds over one another’s methods. But when teachers see the change in their own students, they’ll figure it out.
Moving right along, we reach the skeptics. I love these people, because I am so much like them. Pragmatism and logic rule our world. They see a bunch of students writing a blog together. The first reaction: so what? Their second reaction: what a bunch of punks. Their third reaction is to bookmark our site and come back for more. These are the people we, as Students 2.0, desperately need to prove ourselves to. More than the gushing supporters, who gave us awards before we even launched. (But don’t get me wrong, we’re very grateful.) More than the detractors, who have already made up their mind: students are made to be taught, never the other way around. We need to show the skeptics what we’re all about. It’s time to deliver. (And I’ll be honest, Clay’s Twitter marketing blitz of our splash page bothered me. With no content and nothing to show, it created more skeptics than a month-long, whet-their-appetite launch would have.) These skeptics are the people I want us as a group to challenge head-on. We don’t need to preach to the choir, or come up with abstract, impossible, or improbable ideas. We need to find a happy balance–separating the wheat from the chaff. Like it or not, we made a splash, and we’re here. And now, the pressure is on.
Like I said, this post has absolutely no educational value. Take it with a grain of salt.
And by the way, take that with a grain of salt.
I think it’s important that we answer some of the cries, silent or otherwise, of our skeptics. Believe me, we had an epic internal power struggle over to even publish this post.
Look at it this way: we’re a brand-new blog with a lot to live up to. I just want our readers to know we’re aware of that.
Again, thank you for your comment.
I think this post would have been more effective had it been less defensive. Ok, you want to reach the skeptics? Good! We need to be reached. I would much prefer you speak to me with respect and show me that you respect what you have to say. You want folks to take you seriously? Fine, take yourself seriously.
I am in the subscribed-to-the-feed-to-see-what-emerges and am still in that camp. I want to hear what you have to say and I want to know that it is thought out and respectfully done.
Chris
I disagree with your opening comment and believe that “putting up a billboard in a downtown metropolitan area with IGNORE THIS above whatever it says” can be an extremely effective way to market a product!
Kevin,
In my book, the posting could be retitles “Justifiable pride, perceptions, and learning opportunities”
Can’t help it, I’m a fan.
diane
Again, thank you for your comment.
Diane: You hit the nail on the head with regards to my marketing tagline. And it goes without saying that we are learning from our mistakes. Thank you for your support. Don’t get the wrong idea from my irreverent writing style: we love our fans.
I have to say that student voice is important! I am enjoying reading the posts and hope that they are trying to be truly representive of the student body as a whole and not the opinions of a minority. I think your potential power lies in speaking for the majority of students.
I agree that the most important ground to win are the sceptics. If a real change is to be made then blogs like this one also need to reach the majority of sceptics who are yet to find blogging! As a teacher in the UK I often encourage my colleagues to read blogs and to listen to ‘pupil voice’ however sometimes it feels as if I’ll have to wait for them to retire! What else is being done besides this blog to spread the word?
Keep up the good work
David
I think you underestimate skeptics - most likely the second reaction would be, “oy, i hope they don’t take all the fawning over them too seriously”. Skeptics would be just as skeptical about false praise from your audience as you appear to be. You shouldn’t be ignored because of your age, nor should you be applauded simply because of it. Be skeptical (but use real data.)
Chris,
I have no problem with an attention getting opening. A writer shows respect for a reader by crafting something worth sharing. The measure of that will take time. I’m a lot less happy with Kevin citing imaginary statistics than with his obvious flair for the dramatic.
Nicholas,
It seems to me that reflective practice is sorely lacking in education and this kind of thinking out loud is interesting and educational.
Never let a few critics keep you from changing the world. In fact, being criticized by your peers is what being a part of the big leagues is all about. Acknowledge, learn, and adjust if needed.
I’m more than happy to welcome you aboard.
Sylvia: I’ll be honest: I drew those numbers from my own personal experiences, observations, and everyday interactions with my peers. Not a scientific survey by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I can’t seem to find any sort of study on the subject. That being said, I’ll gladly concede that those statistics are based on solely on my personal associations. Poor wording on my part, and I apologize.
Darren: That’s what I hope to accomplish. I have to say, this post was directed at my fellow authors just as much as it was for the general readership. Thanks for your comment.
Interesting post, followed by some interesting comments. While a few things stood out, one thing stood out (to me, anyways) more than the others:
You don’t need to prove yourselves to anybody. Just write, read, reflect, and write some more.
The fact that you are students is secondary to the fact that you are blogging. Student voices are sorely missing from the educational blogosphere, but so are reflective, informed voices. The number of posts you read about using Facebook as a learning platform, even after the Beacon debacle, goes a ways toward proving that point
If you spend too much time thinking about your audience, you will spend less time thinking about your content. Think about your content first. More importantly, do you want *an* audience, or do you want *your* audience?
Also, on statistics and percentages: if you use them, make them real.
RE:
Like I said before: Just write, read, reflect, and write some more. Live up to your own standards. Write down what you think, do a read-through for clarity and word choice, then hit submit.
Cheers,
Bill
Confusion seems to be abound on my blog post.
I didn’t mean that reflective practice is the best and that thinking aloud is “evil” (That post was thinking aloud), I was just trying to question the post. If you have ever heard of the Socratic method, you may know where I’m coming from. Cheers!
Anybody can say that they have skeptics and that we will do a good job. To convince, you must actually do a good job. We can truly convince the skeptics by acknowledging them on an individual basis, and then continuing to improve the quality of content - not by producing content simply stating that we have skeptics and we will do a good job.
P.S. Yes, I was the one on the other end of the - wanting Kevin to publish this post on his personal blog instead of here. I still hold by this thought - personal blogs are the places to discuss how the process is going and your reservations of a product. The group blog is not the correct forum.
You don’t see Google engineers posting about how much trouble they’re having with something on the official Google blog. They save it for their own personal blog or internal discussions.
P.P.S. For those of you who are doubting how democratic this blog is and how much we put into thinking about it — we had a 2 hour Skype call just discussing the point of this post.
One–I think it’s easy to get so focused on your audience that you stifle yourself trying to figure out what you should/shouldn’t say.
Say what matters to you, say what’s in your heart, say what your observations are and try to write it well.
I think it’s okay to air an internal debate as long as that odesn’t become the focus–once in awhile its okay for people to see the inner workings of things.
I’m sure you all take this very seriously. And sometimes I think–you can speak to your skeptics, but you can’t necessarily expect to ‘convert’ them–you just have to write what is real and important to you.
I applaud what you are doing and am very interested–as are many others! And you have a lot more pressure on you that most bloggers just starting out in a new forum, because you’re the first ones taking a shot at this!
I’d be interested in hearing how the administrative blog, LeaderTalk, handles their author posts, since it also has many authors. Might be interesting to talk to some of the writers there.
Personally, I think all of us should give you the space to “hash” out what this project is going to be for you. And how about we all learn together, teachers or students?
Anybody who expects every blog post to be a masterpiece has a) never read a blog, and b) never blogged him/herself.
And anybody who feels like a blog post should show any sort of ultimate “knowledge” or “wisdom” doesn’t understand that understanding in this new form of writing comes more through the extension of the post’s thoughts in comments by others. (And that the idea of “ultimate” understanding is a poor way to think of learning.)
And anybody who doesn’t want to simply help the writing and thinking of all you s2oh writers at the same time that they take your ideas seriously? I would hesitate to call them educators.
/me doesn’t know Bill, but he really likes his comment
Kevin’s post (and comments) articulated what a lot of people are thinking about this blog but not saying. It’s not about him personally and it didn’t air any dirty laundry. It captured the seriousness with which you all are taking this role to represent students in a discussion of education and technology.
The comparison to the Google blog is not that strong. Google is a for-profit company making a product. Open dissent is not productive in that context. Your blog is about philosophy and pedagogy — dissent is required. Letting your audience see it is not embarrassing or counterproductive, as long as it’s not personally hurtful.
Kevin, I like your opening. And your closing. They show your voice, your attitude and individuality. (You are the “Han Solo” of s2oh, after all.
)
As an English teacher, I’d give them good marks for some reason I won’t bore you with beyond “fresh, genuine, real.”
To air a little more laundry ;), I’m glad you consented to putting your comment back in your post that questioned my (or was it our?) “Twitter blitz” on our impromptu marketing day.
Because your point is well-taken. Maybe it was imprudent to try to generate readership before this blog launched. I can’t say I reflected on that too much, because
a) I was just too curious to see how effective a Twitter network (we’re all friends of sorts, presumably) could be in supporting something I wanted strongly to “grow legs” (and I mean the conversations between you bloggers and your readers). The “Power of the Network” and all of that.
and b) I guess I just had confidence that all of you, whose writing I had read, would be able to live up to any realistic and good-willed audience expectation out there.
Maybe you have to be an old guy to point this out: this project is only three days old. No three-day-old can master the arts of walking, running, and flying. That will take a bit more time.
But goodness, you have some awesome potential here.
Arthus: I disagree with you on a few points (okay, more than a few
), but perhaps I am just arguing semantics. “Proving” someone’s points “moot” (or “wrong”) does not seem like it would make for a good discussion.
Further, I think it is very important to be transparent with our readers, especially this early in the game. Like Clay said, we’ve only been live for three days.
Clay: I hear you on your curiosity on the “Power of the Network” with regards to Twitter-style marketing. I didn’t think of it that way.
I just think about how the internet was basically AOL when I was in high school. We are lucky to have what we have right now. To me, I look at it as a responsibility. It was cool to hear an earlier post talk about how to pass things on. Anyway...
“This post has absolutely no educational value.” Kevin, your opening made me laugh. Sometimes I think there’s another generation gap at work when it comes to spotting well-used irony—ironical natives vs. ironical immigrants. More English-teacher points awarded here for use of a literary device. . .
But what catches my eye here is an exemplary demonstration of how a conversation in the comments section extends, reinforces, challenges, or clarifies the ideas originally expressed in a post. And in this case, the comments touch on HOW you expressed yourself. In your post, you set an ironic tone; but the comments took a different, more candid road. Took on an earnest life of their own. As Clay says, “understanding in this new form of writing comes more through the extension of the post’s thoughts in comments by others.” I second that emotion.
I look forward to reading, learning, and watching as you refine your process and purpose. This is cool stuff.
MB
Thanks for commenting and listening.
First of all, I am your peer, as well as all of the other Students 2.0 kids, and every high school kid in the world (including us crazy Hawaiians). That made clear, the education institution has not been ingrained in me as evil. Though I speak for myself when I say that I love school, I know that most of my classmates generally feel the same way. Certainly they wouldn’t use the word “evil” to describe school.
But you say that 85% of students think that school is evil. First of all, this number sounds like it may have come from an undisclosed location up your sphincter. And I say that with all the kindness in the world. But really, you say you guessed on that number? Could this be a case of false consensus effect? Maybe it’s true that YOU think that school is evil, but you can’t just estimate how many kids have the same feelings about school as you and use that as evidence to support your point. It’s weak, and I wouldn’t have expected that out of you. Though you may think that school is “evil”, and be completely justified in that opinion, it is not your place to make judgments about millions of other kids around the world.
Another generalization that my spine arched at was “Trust me, [teachers] are all bad.” I know that this is a hyperbole, used to shock, but it’s completely inappropriate. What about the other teachers that helped get us Students 2.0 together? Clay can’t take all the credit. Even some of the other ones, the ones that don’t even blog, are not so bad, despite their technological ignorance. Again, speaking for myself, I’ve only had about 2 or 3 truly bad teachers in my entire career as a student. Maybe I’m just lucky, or maybe it’s because I’m private schooled, but that’s the truth.
It could be that I’m a school lovin’, teacher huggin’ freak of nature. But you still put words in my mouth. And I will not just stand here and be the silent while you try and tell our readers how “students” think and what “students” feel. These are all things that YOU feel Kevin. Not the 85%.
Perhaps arguing my use of the word “evil” is just a debate over semantics? I don’t find school “evil,” per se. (You’ll notice I was keen not to divulge where I personally stand on school.) However, I do admit that was my weakest paragraph in this article.
I knew I would catch some flak for my “teachers are all bad” line. After all, as one educator put it to me: “people don’t read emoticons” (like the one I had immediately following that line). I meant that line as an extension of my poorly-worded “statistic” use. “Homework? Tests? Actual work?” think some students.
My writing style has always been riddled with generalizations and attitude. Perhaps that’s something I need to work on. Or maybe that’s my “voice”? Who knows...
CLAY hasn’t taken all the credit. What I was objecting to was Kevin implying that Clay gets to take all the credit. Clay himself suggested giving props to our own teachers who turned us on to Students 2.0.
“I know that most of my classmates generally feel the same way.” I know this not from approximation, but from actually asking my friends who go to both public and private. So it’s not a just a sphincter statistic.
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING OF ALL
YOU ARE AWESOME, KEVIN, AND I WILL NEVER THROW YOU UNDER THE BUS.
Didn’t mean to be too harsh. Much love, brah.
–this is one of the most pregnant passages in the entirety of posts on S2oh for me so far.
I hope you all can “show the change” by doing more than talking about it. Sean’s video, which all of you put together in a fascinating (and easy) way, is a start in that direction.
Whether you take it further is up to you all. As a reader, I can only say that I hope you do.
It’s all good. Much love, Hawaiian girl.
Great conversation. Observations, conversations and reflections are powerful data. Scientific polls can and will be skewed. Many commentors have proven your point for you... they still are trying to tell you what your doing wrong. Continue observing, conversing, reflecting and writing. I enjoy. Thank you!
Keep doing what you are doing. I am so very excited that students are finally seeing that they do have voices to people who care and want to listen. You are on the forefront of something very positive and valuable. I will look to this site to be a model for my students. You are an inspiration to us, educators who actually get it!! It would be nice to have everyone feel the same about students sharing collaborating and learning effectively on their own time, but it will never happen. Skeptics will always be there. Learn from them, the road blocks and doubters will lead you to better triumphs and bigger places. Keep plugging away!! I am enjoying all of the student thoughts, ideas and sharing. Most of my most memorable moments in 20 years of education have happened because of students like you. Thanks!!