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	<title>Comments on: Plagiarism: Not Quite As Simple As It Seems</title>
	<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/</link>
	<description>The silent majority speaks up</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Amateur Education &#171;</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-874</link>
		<dc:creator>Amateur Education &#171;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-874</guid>
		<description>[...] authors at Students 2.0, many of them are pretty good. Recent posts have focused on such topics as plagiarism, unrealistic expectations for college-bound HS kids and 21st Century [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-0845fb9272fd26c978f30605acdff4962757c5d2'>[...] authors at Students 2.0, many of them are pretty good. Recent posts have focused on such topics as plagiarism, unrealistic expectations for college-bound HS kids and 21st Century [...]</div>
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		<title>By: &#187; Thing 5 K12 Learning</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-841</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Thing 5 K12 Learning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-841</guid>
		<description>[...] through Students 2.0 I really enjoyed reading the insightful blog posting by Stacy on Plagiarism. (Did I cite her blog well enough? ;)  I was just having a discussion with another 7th grade [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-76be822591efbffebefaac9643eb6b1b7f2323d9'>[...] through Students 2.0 I really enjoyed reading the insightful blog posting by Stacy on Plagiarism. (Did I cite her blog well enough? ;)  I was just having a discussion with another 7th grade [...]</div>
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		<title>By: Cassie</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-592</link>
		<dc:creator>Cassie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-592</guid>
		<description>The kids at my school just don't do the assignment. Plagiarizing would take far too much time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-2c22c02e16fcd58e465fb82acdc5112c9365e428'>The kids at my school just don&#8217;t do the assignment. Plagiarizing would take far too much time.</div>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-406</guid>
		<description>I have taught seventh and eighth grade over the last sixteen years, and one of the most memorable examples of plagiarism happened about eleven years ago during a poetry unit. The Dave Matthews Band was pretty popular in my school at that point, but I had only just started listening to them. One particular poem submitted by one of my students sounded vaguely familiar to me, and after listening to my new DMB CDs, I found that this student had tried to pass off "Dancing Nancies" as her own poem.
As a result, I now do interactive starter activities during my poetry units and ask my students to write poems based on their experiences from class. They have enough freedom to still tap their creative juices, but it makes it much more difficult to turn in someone else's work.

Nancy (post 31) mentioned that the best way to stop plagiarism is to assign projects that can't be plagiarized. I think that's easier to do in the middle school where our assignments don't have to be strictly analytical,  hard-core research projects. So, for example, instead of asking my students to write "reports" on various figures from the Tudor period in Britain, each student must research their topic, and then create some historical fiction artifacts: a personal journal, a newspaper article, a poem, and a top-ten list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-5796699ba4ecb99f125a91cd1828fbd220a0453e'>I have taught seventh and eighth grade over the last sixteen years, and one of the most memorable examples of plagiarism happened about eleven years ago during a poetry unit. The Dave Matthews Band was pretty popular in my school at that point, but I had only just started listening to them. One particular poem submitted by one of my students sounded vaguely familiar to me, and after listening to my new DMB CDs, I found that this student had tried to pass off &#8220;Dancing Nancies&#8221; as her own poem.<br />
As a result, I now do interactive starter activities during my poetry units and ask my students to write poems based on their experiences from class. They have enough freedom to still tap their creative juices, but it makes it much more difficult to turn in someone else&#8217;s work.</p>
<p>Nancy (post 31) mentioned that the best way to stop plagiarism is to assign projects that can&#8217;t be plagiarized. I think that&#8217;s easier to do in the middle school where our assignments don&#8217;t have to be strictly analytical,  hard-core research projects. So, for example, instead of asking my students to write &#8220;reports&#8221; on various figures from the Tudor period in Britain, each student must research their topic, and then create some historical fiction artifacts: a personal journal, a newspaper article, a poem, and a top-ten list.</p></div>
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		<title>By: Robert Talbert</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-364</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Talbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 03:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-364</guid>
		<description>I'm a college mathematics professor. "Plagiarism" in my classes means instances where you were supposed to solve a problem on your own, but didn't. A plagiarizing student hands in a solution to a problem that was not her/his own work on a significant level. Most of the time, this isn't because the student found the solution in a book or an article, but rather because the student worked with other students and crossed a line where they were no longer doing the thinking. 

It's subjective, to an extent, but there are ways to make it clear and to mitigate against its appearance. For example, I often duplicate difficult problem set items on the midterm or final exam for my courses, so if students really worked on and understood the problem then it's only a matter of reconstructing the solution. (And any good solution to a problem is memorable to the problem-solver.) On the other hand, the plagiarizers end up losing significantly more credit than they "earned" through copying work. 

You asked for funny or memorable stories. Unfortunately I have very, very many stories and none of them are what I would call "funny". Academic dishonesty saddens and angers me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-366293b7d8f8d7784a4e6bf93261ca0884430837'>I&#8217;m a college mathematics professor. &#8220;Plagiarism&#8221; in my classes means instances where you were supposed to solve a problem on your own, but didn&#8217;t. A plagiarizing student hands in a solution to a problem that was not her/his own work on a significant level. Most of the time, this isn&#8217;t because the student found the solution in a book or an article, but rather because the student worked with other students and crossed a line where they were no longer doing the thinking. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s subjective, to an extent, but there are ways to make it clear and to mitigate against its appearance. For example, I often duplicate difficult problem set items on the midterm or final exam for my courses, so if students really worked on and understood the problem then it&#8217;s only a matter of reconstructing the solution. (And any good solution to a problem is memorable to the problem-solver.) On the other hand, the plagiarizers end up losing significantly more credit than they &#8220;earned&#8221; through copying work. </p>
<p>You asked for funny or memorable stories. Unfortunately I have very, very many stories and none of them are what I would call &#8220;funny&#8221;. Academic dishonesty saddens and angers me.</p></div>
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		<title>By: Lalla Jones</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>Lalla Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-349</guid>
		<description>Stacy,
     Like the first commenter Joel Adkins, I am teacher and a graduate student.  I found your posting to be very sincere and engaging.  
     First, let me reply to some of your specific points.  
          1. I have never asked my students to cite themes because as you say, they are universal.  And while it may be acceptable to go to Sparknotes to find a novel theme (I'm sure some teachers would disagree with me here), I would never read Sparknotes' explanation of that theme before I wrote the paper; your analysis of that theme should be your own. 
          2. I don't quite understand your point about plagiarizing a novel summary.  While it is true that the plot is the plot, each student needs to summarize it in his or her own words.  The major plot elements will obviously be the same, but the student's voice should shine through in his or her summary.  Perhaps, (I can only assume here) the problem is that students try to paraphrase Cliffnotes, Sparknotes, or some other source's summary of the novel.  
     While I wish I knew the "perfect" solution to this plagiarism problem, I don't.  The only thing that has had a measure of success is to create unique topics that "force" students to think for themselves.  
     Having said that, nothing makes me angrier than intentional plagiarism.  While I can't always prove it has been done, I can spot plagiarism right away.  As you mentioned in your paper, every writer has his or her own voice, and this makes plagiarism very transparent to me.  It is especially apparent when more than one student plagiarizes the same source.  For example, when I was student teaching, four students copied the exact same paragraph from a source word for word.  These four students were not friends and they weren't even in the same period, yet each of them had chosen to use the same quotation.  Their explanation was that they couldn't have expressed the idea in their own words any better than it was already written.  Understandable, but then they should have put the paragraph in quotation marks and cited the source.  
     I also notice when students plagiarize each other.  Personally, I find this particular practice insulting.  Do students think teachers don't read and remember their writing?
     As for the most blatant act of plagiarism, a student turned in a research paper that had obviously been cut and pasted directly from a web page into Microsoft Word and printed.  How do I know this?  Well, for starters, all of the hyperlinks were underlined and in color.  When I asked this student for an explanation, he said he formatted his paper like this on purpose because he liked the way it looked.  
     However, I have never asked my students to cite themes because as you say, they are universal.  And while it may be acceptable to go to Sparknotes to find a novel theme, I would never read what Sparknotes' explanation of that theme before you write the paper; your analysis of that theme should be your own.  
     However, I have never asked my students to cite themes because as you say, they are universal.  And while it may be acceptable to go to Sparknotes to find a novel theme, I would never read what Sparknotes' explanation of that theme before you write the paper; your analysis of that theme should be your own.  
     Finally, remember: teachers don't want to see your ability to rearrange other people's ideas on paper.  Instead, we want to know what YOU think.  If you must use other people's thoughts ,my advice to you is the same I give my students, cite EVERYTHING!  Even if you paraphrase, you should still cite the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-265225ca8dbef3995194a31aaef43533456a5052'>Stacy,<br />
     Like the first commenter Joel Adkins, I am teacher and a graduate student.  I found your posting to be very sincere and engaging.<br />
     First, let me reply to some of your specific points.<br />
          1. I have never asked my students to cite themes because as you say, they are universal.  And while it may be acceptable to go to Sparknotes to find a novel theme (I&#8217;m sure some teachers would disagree with me here), I would never read Sparknotes&#8217; explanation of that theme before I wrote the paper; your analysis of that theme should be your own.<br />
          2. I don&#8217;t quite understand your point about plagiarizing a novel summary.  While it is true that the plot is the plot, each student needs to summarize it in his or her own words.  The major plot elements will obviously be the same, but the student&#8217;s voice should shine through in his or her summary.  Perhaps, (I can only assume here) the problem is that students try to paraphrase Cliffnotes, Sparknotes, or some other source&#8217;s summary of the novel.<br />
     While I wish I knew the &#8220;perfect&#8221; solution to this plagiarism problem, I don&#8217;t.  The only thing that has had a measure of success is to create unique topics that &#8220;force&#8221; students to think for themselves.<br />
     Having said that, nothing makes me angrier than intentional plagiarism.  While I can&#8217;t always prove it has been done, I can spot plagiarism right away.  As you mentioned in your paper, every writer has his or her own voice, and this makes plagiarism very transparent to me.  It is especially apparent when more than one student plagiarizes the same source.  For example, when I was student teaching, four students copied the exact same paragraph from a source word for word.  These four students were not friends and they weren&#8217;t even in the same period, yet each of them had chosen to use the same quotation.  Their explanation was that they couldn&#8217;t have expressed the idea in their own words any better than it was already written.  Understandable, but then they should have put the paragraph in quotation marks and cited the source.<br />
     I also notice when students plagiarize each other.  Personally, I find this particular practice insulting.  Do students think teachers don&#8217;t read and remember their writing?<br />
     As for the most blatant act of plagiarism, a student turned in a research paper that had obviously been cut and pasted directly from a web page into Microsoft Word and printed.  How do I know this?  Well, for starters, all of the hyperlinks were underlined and in color.  When I asked this student for an explanation, he said he formatted his paper like this on purpose because he liked the way it looked.<br />
     However, I have never asked my students to cite themes because as you say, they are universal.  And while it may be acceptable to go to Sparknotes to find a novel theme, I would never read what Sparknotes&#8217; explanation of that theme before you write the paper; your analysis of that theme should be your own.<br />
     However, I have never asked my students to cite themes because as you say, they are universal.  And while it may be acceptable to go to Sparknotes to find a novel theme, I would never read what Sparknotes&#8217; explanation of that theme before you write the paper; your analysis of that theme should be your own.<br />
     Finally, remember: teachers don&#8217;t want to see your ability to rearrange other people&#8217;s ideas on paper.  Instead, we want to know what YOU think.  If you must use other people&#8217;s thoughts ,my advice to you is the same I give my students, cite EVERYTHING!  Even if you paraphrase, you should still cite the idea.</div>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-324</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 04:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-324</guid>
		<description>Stacy, et al.,

As an educator that works with teachers each day, too many of them come to me complaining about the perceived "plagiarism problem" in our schools. They ask me how to teach kids about plagiarism.

One thing I think works against students is a school culture steeped in reciting the "correct answer" and that alone, is good enough. I could point to standardized testing, NCLB, etc., as root issues behind this.

Our students will Google search (it's easier than other database searches), find something that looks credible, print it, and hand it in. They may not even read it. "Found it," let's move on.

I wonder if the written assignments are simply too boring in 2007.

Those of us from academic backgrounds know that the reason that plagiarism in colleges/universities is taken so seriously is that they are looking for evidence of original thought. But in a remix culture that many teens today participate in, I am not sure we are culturally putting a lot of value on original thought.


To combat the problem, I think students need concrete examples, I think assignments should change with the times to challenge students to find their voice, and I think at some point we could begin to value artifacts of remix culture when/where the authors of source material are agreeing to share their work for re-use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-31f48d50f16407403cd1394c100e83dcd94719dd'>Stacy, et al.,</p>
<p>As an educator that works with teachers each day, too many of them come to me complaining about the perceived &#8220;plagiarism problem&#8221; in our schools. They ask me how to teach kids about plagiarism.</p>
<p>One thing I think works against students is a school culture steeped in reciting the &#8220;correct answer&#8221; and that alone, is good enough. I could point to standardized testing, NCLB, etc., as root issues behind this.</p>
<p>Our students will Google search (it&#8217;s easier than other database searches), find something that looks credible, print it, and hand it in. They may not even read it. &#8220;Found it,&#8221; let&#8217;s move on.</p>
<p>I wonder if the written assignments are simply too boring in 2007.</p>
<p>Those of us from academic backgrounds know that the reason that plagiarism in colleges/universities is taken so seriously is that they are looking for evidence of original thought. But in a remix culture that many teens today participate in, I am not sure we are culturally putting a lot of value on original thought.</p>
<p>To combat the problem, I think students need concrete examples, I think assignments should change with the times to challenge students to find their voice, and I think at some point we could begin to value artifacts of remix culture when/where the authors of source material are agreeing to share their work for re-use.</p></div>
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		<title>By: G$</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>G$</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-309</guid>
		<description>The definition I use for my classes is rather simple - the unacknowledged use of another's words or ideas. 

The issues I deal with (and there have been more and more recently) are with those students who are trying to do the least amount of work possible. I understand that often the idea is "just get it done and deal with the consequences later". 

The question I have begun asking is: "Do you really trust someone else's work? Are you willing to take whatever credit the teacher gives for another person's work?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-9ba64c3088089ceef68500d3f0fbd182f8420cf0'>The definition I use for my classes is rather simple - the unacknowledged use of another&#8217;s words or ideas. </p>
<p>The issues I deal with (and there have been more and more recently) are with those students who are trying to do the least amount of work possible. I understand that often the idea is &#8220;just get it done and deal with the consequences later&#8221;. </p>
<p>The question I have begun asking is: &#8220;Do you really trust someone else&#8217;s work? Are you willing to take whatever credit the teacher gives for another person&#8217;s work?&#8221;</p></div>
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		<title>By: Nancy</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-262</guid>
		<description>I heard some where that there is a surefire way to prevent plagiarism--give assignments that can't be plagiarized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-2e8b6118e8f9a62b3c33b499902eff2365500316'>I heard some where that there is a surefire way to prevent plagiarism&#8211;give assignments that can&#8217;t be plagiarized.</div>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://students2oh.org/2007/12/11/plagiarism-not-quite-as-simple-as-it-seems-an-oddly-specific-meta/#comment-259</guid>
		<description>Sorry for my late replies, school has been consuming my soul. 

&lt;b&gt;Simon--&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;Personally, my problem is with unknowingly using someone else’s idea; I’ll read something, forget about it, and then present it as my own idea a few months later &lt;/i&gt;. That's my same problem. *sheepish* I'm always afraid that I might present an idea that's actually somebody else's.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='microid-f920316343969f44ccc6e4d9df7b9504a5d44654'>Sorry for my late replies, school has been consuming my soul. </p>
<p><b>Simon&#8211;</b> <i>Personally, my problem is with unknowingly using someone else’s idea; I’ll read something, forget about it, and then present it as my own idea a few months later </i>. That&#8217;s my same problem. *sheepish* I&#8217;m always afraid that I might present an idea that&#8217;s actually somebody else&#8217;s.</div>
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